Marnie Mitchell Lister (Level 5) ~ 5/18/2009 9:25 PM
Matt Johnson (Level 3) ~ 5/18/2009 10:08 PM
"DUCK YOU SUCKER!!!!"
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 12:19 AM
Everyone's SOOOOOOOOOO busy reviewing the ten pagers and writing their Grimm Tales that they're just TOOOOOOOOO busy to post. :)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 12:40 AM
Hey Caroline... you're a moderator... can you tell how far am I from being a level 5? Is it a matter of reviews, contest entries, or both?
Just curious. (I want that 5, dammit!) Grin
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 12:44 AM
You need 155 more reviews, Tim.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 1:25 AM
OH MY GOD! MOTHER OF PEARL!! GREAT CAESAR SALAD !!!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 1:26 AM
Forgot... thank you, Travis.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 2:02 AM
What dressing do you prefer, Tim?
Thanks for helping out Travis.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 4:08 AM
A general comment...
It would be a great shame if requiring a lot of reviews to reach the next level stopped people from contributing to MoviePoet. I know it has in some cases. (At least, I can only ASSUME that's the reason that some people have reached a certain level then stopped reviewing but continued to submit)
'Getting to the next level' isn't what MoviePoet's all about - neither is strategic reviewing (calculating exactly how many reviews you need to attain a new level so you can then enter the number of contests that you choose to) Using that sort of tactic is hardly conducive to reviewing with the intention of making a contribution to others and in some way repaying all the support received from fellow MPoets.
By the way, this is absolutely NOT addressed at you Tim, because you contribute a great deal! :)
Here endeth Caroline's sermon of the day :)
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 4:14 AM
P.S. You can find out how many reviews are required for each level (which adjusts automatically in line with the numbers) by clicking on the STATS button at the bottom of this and every page.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 5:28 AM
Actually, requiring a lot of reviews can stop someone from contributing their script to this site. I wish there was a better review/level system... Blah.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 5:30 AM
I think if the system wasn't the way it is now, then no one would bother trying to strategically plan how many reviews they must submit. Ya know?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 5:43 AM
The reason Chris devised the new system was to ENCOURAGE people to review and to DISCOURAGE people from submitting month after month without reciprocating people's generosity by reviewing other scripts.
It makes me sad that this has resulted, it seems, in some people knocking off speedy reviews just to get themselves further up the ladder and then stopping when they have got to where they want to get (or giving up because it's too much effort) without any thought for others.
No-one would need to "strategically plan how many reviews they must submit" if they had entered into the spirit of MoviePoet as a supportive community and given as much as they had taken right from the word go.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 6:00 AM
Yeah. Sounds like it's mostly encouraging strategically planned speedy reviews. Maybe it's time for a change. It never works when you try and force people into your way of thinking. You gotta do it naturally, without artificial means.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 6:17 AM
I think we tried that - you know, relying on people's integrity...
(and, quite honestly, by far the greatest majority of people who are regular participants are completely honourable and unselfish)
Have you any suggestions then, Travis, since you don't seem to like it as it is, for some reason? :)
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 6:33 AM
I always wished you could enter 8 contests a year instead of 6 at Level 4. It's a lot easier to maintain level 4 if you're really busy (like me), and you won't have to lose out on any of the old-fashioned 5-page contest months.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 6:35 AM
Because if someone just wants to use this site like it used to be, only enter into the 5-page scripts and ignore the feature-length and short film contests, then you're still going to ask them to review 400, 500+ scripts. If not, even if they do manage to reach Level 4, they'll still be left out of two contests a year.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 6:43 AM
First, I think many of the people who have reached Level 5, and indeed, the moderators, are very busy people too. I know I am.
Second, with respect, I'm talking about encouraging people to review. Are you saying that your suggestion above would achieve that?
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 6:52 AM
Obviously the people who've reached level 5 aren't too busy. Otherwise, they wouldn't have reached level 5. :-D The way it is now, if a new person joined the site, it would take them well over a year of reviewing every single entry for every single month (assuming 40 entries per month). And the level requirements will only increase with each month, making it harder and harder. And I don't think that won't encourage anyone very well, only force them to speedily review each month so they can keep up.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 6:53 AM
I don't think that *will* encourage anyone very well.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 7:13 AM
"Obviously the people who've reached level 5 aren't too busy."
They ARE busy people, they just have different priorities - like, instead of spending time on their own work, being willing to contribute to others - and for that, they benefit, learning more and more with every word they read, and also being given the opportunity to submit their own work to more contests.
I think that most people simply accept that if they haven't either the time (or the necessary commitment) to review, then, so be it - they'll have to miss out on a few contests.
A lot of people are so very generous. This month, when I last looked, there were 77 people reviewing the ten pagers, even though there are only 26 in the contest.
Those are the people who are dedicated to growing as writers and being part of a supportive community.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 7:20 AM
Regardless, I think the whole levels system is still completely unnecessary. If people are so generous and dedicated to growing as a writer and being part of a supportive community, then they'll do so without being forced. Implementing the levels only alienates those of us who, unfortunately, are too busy to review such a large number of scripts.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 7:34 AM
I think you have rather missed the point, Travis. The people who are generous and dedicated aren't the ones who need the level system...they don't review simply to further their own status.
And just think how many scripts you could have reviewed whilst engaging in this conversation! :)
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 7:43 AM
Hey, I would like to submit this month, but realize the 130 reviews I need to get to level 5 are beyond reach (for several months at least). So I'll leave my last submission in my pocket. I have reviewed every script just about every month I've been a member. However, If I can't submit there is little motivation to review. If that trails off, they're may be little motivation to continue with MP. This point may be reached by some people faster than it will with me, but I can see a time when I'm going to say, "why am I reviewing when I can't submit? Where's the benefit for me?"
I understand the point of levels etc., and figured I would play along, but the floating goal post can be discouraging.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 8:00 AM
Ah, the WIIFM Factor :)
"If I can't submit there is little motivation to review." To support other writers who would benefit from your experience? To learn from other people's mistakes and triumphs? To feel content that you've given back as much as you've taken?
(N.B. This is a GENERAL comment! Chris, I KNOW you've reviewed more than the reviews you've received, so good on ya!)
Philip Whitcroft (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 8:27 AM
I recall that when the Levels were originally put in place there was a comment that they might be adjusted based on how things play out.
If someone joins and reviews every script they can then it is possible (just about) to enter every contest up until the 7th entry. By this time someone is Level 4 and might have 300+ reviews done.
I’d agree with the idea that someone who participates fully in reviewing should also be able to participate fully in entering. Although I do understand the view that perhaps it is good to sit out occasional contests and I completely agree that reviewing has its own rewards.
I think it is quite reasonable to ask if the number of levels, number of contests allowed, and/or the percentages to reach each level be tweaked to close the Level 4 hole? It is the obvious anomaly in an otherwise good system.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 8:34 AM
I'm sure Chris will be able to comment on all this shortly.
Kevin Carty (Level 4) ~ 5/19/2009 8:40 AM
yeah that's what I thought originally anyways when I read the parameters I was like oh no's. Turns out it works out just fine for me, keeps me motivated to review.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 8:40 AM
I have activated the giant spotlight with the MP logo and am waiting by the purple phone with the yellow light.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 8:51 AM
"keeps me motivated to review." - My hero :)
Kevin Carty (Level 4) ~ 5/19/2009 8:51 AM
I've just been working on this short feature script and school that's why I haven't been posting like I usually do. I was wondering how long should a short movie script be (to be made by an indie director) I really would like to see one of my works made. I heard somewhere that its 30-40 pages. Also when I'm through I was wondering if anyone would like to check it out and gimme some critiques :).
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 8:57 AM
I don't know the answer to the number of pages question.
Sure, as Travis knows, I'm not AT ALL busy :) Send it along at your peril and I'd be happy to review it. I'll just drink more Red Bull...
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/19/2009 9:12 AM
There is no perfect solution. Or at least, if there is, I don't know it. :)
Still, I believe, if you look at the facts, the current combination of a review quota and minimum review length is working very well.
In the 6 months prior to the quota change we averaged:
- 40 entries per month
- 30 reviews per entry
- 530 characters per review
In the last 6 months (not counting the logline challenge) we are averaging:
- 50 entries per month
- 40 reviews per entry
- 650 characters per review
Additionally, if someone had reviewed every entry since this quota change was announced in September (the last 8 months), they would have reviewed 465 entries and they would now be a Level 5.
I realize this new system is still not perfect and I am happy to tweak it when needed (like adding the review minimum length), but I think, in general, it has been a success.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 9:20 AM
All - I apologize for asking the "how far away is level 5 for me" question. Didn't realize the sh_tstorm that would result.
Honestly, I don't care what level I'm at. I'll contribute how and when I can, whether it's through contests, reviews, or silly comments/questions in these threads.
I appreciate all of the feedback, commentary, humor and honesty in these forum post. I especially appreciate the Moderators (even Rusty) for taking the time to respond so clearly and effectively. And Chris, of course. Of course.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 9:22 AM
I help Chris put on the leotard, okay. There I said it!
Don't parenthesize me. I'm a box bracket kinda guy.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 9:22 AM
Tim, it wasn't by any means a sh_tstorm. It was something that obviously needed airing.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/19/2009 9:23 AM
No need for any apologies.
MoviePoet is a community site and we need to be free to discuss how it works (or even when it isn't working). As many of you know, most of the ideas I have incorporated I have come from member suggestions.
I just wanted to share some of the numbers from the past year, so people could see the positive effect of the new rules.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 9:25 AM
[Rusty] = Funny.
[Rusty] * Chris / Leotard = !Disturbing!
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 9:26 AM
A three Moderator response. Happy now, Tim? :)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 9:35 AM
Now that I have your attention... about this level 5 being so far away...
(insert evil laugh here)
Kyle Patrick Johnson (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 9:36 AM
Wow. Suddenly it's not so quiet, is it? :)
I wanna take just a small moment to be as real as possible. I'm a nice guy, and it pains me to criticize fellow MPers a bit, but I feel like there are necessary things that the Moderators are also too nice to say.
In general, those who complain about reviewing are those who haven't completely "bought in" to the purpose of MoviePoet, IMHO. In general (let me stress this, in general), those who complain about the reviewing process are usually the same persons who write short, disdainful, or (dare I say it) even vicious reviews for others, yet complain when they themselves receive such reviews.
@Travis: I love your writing. Love it. You know that. But I deeply believe you're off base on this topic. To say that Moderators have plenty of time is absolutely ridiculous: Chris M runs this site practically by himself, reviews every entry, and just started up his own school on top of family demands! You're honestly going to tell me that you're busier than he is? I'm almost a Level 5 (probably hit it next month): you're going to tell me I'm not busy? Are you kidding me? I'll spare you all the details of my hectic life, but trust me, I'm busy. It's just that I've plugged in to the mission of MoviePoet and see it as an educational process, not just as a place where I can enter contests and get reviews for free.
I've been a member of MoviePoet for less time than you, Travis, yet I have written nearly twice as many reviews (and those reviews are much longer than your own). I don't mean to turn this conversation into a "Who's the better reviewer" useless debate, but the point is that perhaps when you've reviewed more scripts than reviews you've received, you'll plug into Chris' vision as well.
Philip made a GREAT point: "I’d agree with the idea that someone who participates fully in reviewing should also be able to participate fully in entering." Chris basically answered this, and I'll second him. I've reviewed every script since joining in October, and I'm on the cusp of Level 5. Because I've reviewed all those scripts and dedicated the time (which I don't have) and the effort (which I do), I've also been able to participate in every contest that I've wanted to.
As more people join MoviePoet, and as each person writes more reviews, bunnies and sunshine will drift in on the East Wind. No, perhaps not. :)
Anyway, less complaining, and more and better reviewing, please. Peace to all.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 10:00 AM
If you are too busy to review enough scripts to be Level 5, then you're not going to be Level 5. Evidently I am busier than you, Kyle. That should go without saying, obviously.
And I did once have more reviews than scripts written. But then, unfortunately, I got busy.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 10:03 AM
[Rusty] x (Bunnies+Sunshine) = Happy
William Coleman (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 10:05 AM
I was amazed when I reached Level 5. Of late, I have not been entering since none of Chris' challenges grabbed me - and also that I am immersed in writing and marketing my plays and screenplays. I have no time to write something short when something long might pay the bills. That kept me busy so I haven't reviewed much of late except for a few friends who asked my comments. Two have been very generous reviewing my long scripts. I owe them a read.
I seem to be in a holding pattern.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 10:13 AM
[Rusty] x (Bunny stew + solar powered crockpot)/Tim's next post = Delish!
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/19/2009 10:16 AM
Kyle, Thanks for the support. Once you reach level 5, I'll make sure you get the key to the executive bathroom (just don't tell Rusty). :)
Bill, I'm going to try and grab you with next month's challenge.
Andrew Allen (Level 3) ~ 5/19/2009 10:23 AM
I completely agree with Caroline - the only true way to evolve and grow as a writer is to read as well as write.
This debate about what level you are at is fairly redundant.
I am level 1, and have yet to enter a contest, but am happy reviewing until a suitable contest comes up. This month's contest was not for me, but I will happily review when the time comes.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 10:27 AM
What about, instead of taking the cumulative total of all scripts reviewed, just do it month by month? If you want to enter next month's contest, then you'll have to review a certain number of the current month's entries. At least then you have a little bit more control. And it could reset each month, so no worries.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 10:48 AM
"I'll make sure you get the key to the executive bathroom (just don't tell Rusty)."
Farsnworth Mcflushin' the butler, stands with a napkin besides a bush that has a padlocked chain thrown around it.
That's the executive bathroom in a nutshell.
I know Chris. Sniff! I know. And those tire marks leading away from the bush (where I expected my secret Christmas bonus under heavy security and a padlock) tell me I'm not the prodigal favorite moderator.
As you can see, we not only believe in beauty and economy but also ecology in every aspect here at MP.
Erich VonHeeder (Level 4) ~ 5/19/2009 11:17 AM
This thread is weird.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 11:19 AM
If you're very good, Rusty, I might let you use the ladies' occasionally.
(The ladies' ROOM, I should add hastily!)
Marnie Mitchell Lister (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 11:25 AM
I'm so busy, I don't even have time to reply to this thread.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 11:27 AM
INT. MEN'S EXECUTIVE WASHROOM - DAY
Sweating profusely, Rusty works at drilling a hole in the wall. The ceramic tile slows his progress.
INT. LADIES EXECUTIVE WASHROOM - DAY
In the process of applying lipstick, Caroline cocks her head. An odd whirring sound from somewhere catches her attention.
Sorry folks... feeling pretty kooky lately.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 11:29 AM
It's the food additives...
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 11:38 AM
INT. MEN'S EXECUTIVE WASHROOM - DAY
Sweating profusely, Rusty works at drilling a hole in the wall. The ceramic tile slows his progress.
No electric outlet or powerdrill can be seen.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 11:41 AM
Dearie dearie ME.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 11:49 AM
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 12:00 PM
William Coleman (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 12:05 PM
Where is Salvador Dali when we knead him?
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 12:07 PM
"I might let you use the ladies'(room) occasionally."
I guess this isn't one of those occasions, then?
Woof! Howl! Whine!
That's right folks, I'm a moderator. ;P
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/19/2009 12:07 PM
On the lobster telephone?
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/19/2009 12:15 PM
Last I heard, he hung up the claw and was beer battered.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/19/2009 2:52 PM
"What about, instead of taking the cumulative total of all scripts reviewed, just do it month by month? If you want to enter next month's contest, then you'll have to review a certain number of the current month's entries. At least then you have a little bit more control. And it could reset each month, so no worries."
Great Idea! I was just about to make that suggestion. How about this as an idea.
Keep the level system, it works as is. However, why not have a clause that if you review every entry in a month you can submit the next month regardless of rank.
This way those dedicated reviewers won't have to sit out months?
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 10:16 AM
I guess my above suggestion was so astoundingly brilliant that everyone had to pause for a moment of silence to take in the beauty of it.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/20/2009 10:46 AM
I think it's more that we were too busy :)
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 12:10 PM
"I think it's more that we were too busy :)"
Don't piss on my dreams, man! :P
Rob Gross (Level 4) ~ 5/20/2009 12:13 PM
That reminds me of a quote I heard:
"Aren't you sick and tired of people pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining?"
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/20/2009 12:23 PM
"Don't piss on my dreams, man!"
I feel terribly sorry for you if that's the best you can manage to dream about :)
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 12:32 PM
"I feel terribly sorry for you if that's the best you can manage to dream about :)"
Ah, now you are pissing on my miserable existence! Thanks a lot. :P
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 1:11 PM
I don't think we should fix what isn't broken!
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/20/2009 1:19 PM
You're saying that Chris's existence isn't broken, Faith?
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 2:58 PM
Well now ... that brings up something else, doesn't it ... hmmm.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 3:14 PM
I wasn't fixing anything just suggesting a natural evolutionary improvement.
"Keep the level system, it works as is. However, why not have a clause that if you review every entry in a month you can submit the next month regardless of rank."
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/20/2009 3:16 PM
Good suggestion Chris
William Coleman (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 4:16 PM
I favor the overall cumulative system we have. Why cost Chris more work? Sit down and review everything for a couple of months and you'll get there.
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/20/2009 4:48 PM
I think the rules work just fine as they are currently constituted. The last several months were filled with ample opportunities to move up (especially with 100+ loglines).
I choose to review rather than submit, and I still do not have to time to review every entry. Coaching sports, volunteering on parent and municipal boards as well as the 150 mile round-trip ride to work every other day leaves me with little time to write my own features, let alone a short + reviews.
The site has made me a far better writer than anything else I've been a part of -- so, it's an easy trade off. I have learned to be economical in feature writing directly due to MoviePoet.
Diplomacy is not one of my virtues, but as a moderator, I represent Chris and his vision -- it's the convict/parole officer relationship. I want to remain a moderator, so I do not stray from that vision (or reprimand those that disagree with it).
Every month there are questions about the challenge and why can't we do this -- or that, and here's a great way to make the site better. As a neophyte programmer, even I understand to a small degree the painstaking process Mr. Messineo has to undertake when changing the site (feature contest was a bear).
Just review -- with the idea that you could have written that script you are commenting on. While you learn a lot from doing, you learn more from the other 40+ who are doing as well.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 5:06 PM
I haven't really heard any actual explanations as to why the current system is better. I only hear "I like it the way it is now." That's not saying much. Like Chris said, I think natural, evolutionary improvements are a must for this site. And I'm pretty sure Chris's idea is lot simpler (and much better) than the current mess we're stuck with.
Kyle Patrick Johnson (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 5:21 PM
"Keep the level system, it works as is. However, why not have a clause that if you review every entry in a month you can submit the next month regardless of rank."
If this was a democratic site, which of course it is not (nor should it be), I'd be in favor of this proposal. In my opinion, it doesn't appear to violate the premise or promise of MoviePoet. I don't agree that the current system is a mess, but such a clause could be helpful motivation and provide educational opportunities for folks who haven't visited in a while, perhaps slipped down a level or two in their absence, or those who are really burning with desire to entire a future contest. The reward? More reviews.
This proposal (and William, it's true that I have no idea how much work would have to be behind it) stems from Philip's principle above: "I’d agree with the idea that someone who participates fully in reviewing should also be able to participate fully in entering." I guess it depends on one's definition of "participating fully", but we all know that reviewing everything in a month takes a lot of effort. The esoteric rewards are fantastic (learning, reading, immersing, etc.), but I see it as just to allow those individuals to submit the next month regardless of rank.
As always, it's up to Chris. He's shepherded us quite capably this far. :)
Kyle Patrick Johnson (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 5:25 PM
I'm pretty sure I meant "enter a future contest". :)
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/20/2009 5:50 PM
"I’d agree with the idea that someone who participates fully in reviewing should also be able to participate fully in entering."
There are those who are the building blocks of this site that have participated since its creation. They are not equal to someone who has joined two months ago and has reviewed 70-80 scripts. That individual will climb quickly due to their own diligence, and if they continue will reach Level 5.
To use as a comparison -- Caroline Coxon (don't hate me, dear) has reviewed 1,143 scripts... and I believe that is every entry since the beginning (but I could be wrong). I don't know how she does it. If not the cornerstone, she is right next to Chris as far as this site goes -- and she moderates as well.
Caroline should be able to do whatever it is she wishes. And she is certainly not equal to someone who has reviewed every script for the past two months.
I applaud anyone who reviews beyond 50% of the scripts. It's a fine achievement, indeed -- but this level system is a ladder. You can't become the master carpenter without being an apprentice for several years... and it doesn't take years here, either.
And to Travis -- why this system is good (and not the mess you describe).
It rewards those who forge on and not those who want instant gratification. That is why I like the current system.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/20/2009 8:37 PM
"Keep the level system, it works as is. However, why not have a clause that if you review every entry in a month you can submit the next month regardless of rank."
Chris, It's an interesting idea and honestly, something I will seriously consider.
"I haven't really heard any actual explanations as to why the current system is better. I only hear "I like it the way it is now." That's not saying much. Like Chris said, I think natural, evolutionary improvements are a must for this site. And I'm pretty sure Chris's idea is lot simpler (and much better) than the current mess we're stuck with."
Travis, I tried to answer your questions and explain in detail (up above) why I think the current system is working. I'm sorry you think the current system is "a mess".
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 9:49 PM
The current level requirements are as follows.
Level 1: 1
Level 2: 15
Level 3: 64
Level 4: 193
Level 5: 472
Levels 1, 2 and 3 are easy and can be reached in just 2 months if someone reviews all the scripts.
Level 4 can be reached in 4-5 months.
Those 4 levels are easily attainable by someone that reviews every script each month and they would be able to enter all contests up to that point.
I feel like the jump from level 4 to level 5 is rather huge though.
Level 5 takes 10-12 months of reviewing every script to reach and considering a level 4 member would only be able to enter 6 of the 10-12 contests, it might be a bit of a stretch to expect someone to review all the scripts in those 4-6 contests that they are forbidden from entering.
I would agree that the level 5 requirements could stand to be lowered a bit OR the level 4 benefits could be enhanced to offset the large gap. Basically, I am in agreement that someone that reviews every script for several months in a row to attain level 4 shouldn't be penalized just because they happened to discover MoviePoet later than other people did. It is my understanding that the level system was put in place to motivate reviewers and to make sure people were giving (reviewing) as much as they were receiving (getting feedback on their own scripts.) If someone has reviewed every script for 6 months, it doesn't seem proper that they would then have to sit out from entering for 4-6 months (while still being expected to review everything) before they can enter another script.
All of that being said, I think if someone simply doesn't have the time to review all the scripts each month, then they are not putting in what they are getting out and probably should have to sit out a few contests in order to reach the next levels. We're all busy. It's a matter of prioritzing your free time. If you really want to be able to enter all the contests, you need to review all the scripts each month to advance to the next levels.
Not that anyone asked for it, but that's my 2 cents. All of this is largely irrelevant to me, personally. I just think there have been some very valid points raised in this thread and can agree that the system may be in need of a slight tweak to allow someone that reviews everything to also be able to enter everything.
Erich VonHeeder (Level 4) ~ 5/20/2009 10:47 PM
"...the current mess we're stuck with."
I'm a couple drinks down right now, so I don't trust my judgement.
Would someone be so kind as to let me know if that statement is oddly insulting and HIDEOUSLY unappreciative?
Because it kind of seems like it is.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 11:32 PM
Brian you hit the nail on the head. That was exactly my feelings.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 11:37 PM
It's not. Sorry if anyone misunderstood me.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/20/2009 11:38 PM
Great post, Brian. I definitely agree with everything you said.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 12:03 AM
How about we use the following calculation:
Total number of reviews, multiplied by the total characters in all reviews, divided by 7 and multiplied by the number I'm thinking of right now - then just award me a Level 5 and quickly lock this thread.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 12:38 AM
"Sorry if anyone misunderstood me."
Oh no, Travis, you have made yourself perfectly clear.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 4:34 AM
"I'm a couple drinks down right now, so I don't trust my judgement."
This one time I'd like to share a drink with you fe-fi-foe of mine.
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 5:41 AM
" would agree that the level 5 requirements could stand to be lowered a bit OR the level 4 benefits could be enhanced to offset the large gap."
I find this an interesting thread. Perhaps a compromise ... have more than five levels?
If level 4 let's you enter six contests and level 5 let's you enter twelve. Perhaps there should be a level 4.5 ...
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 9:35 AM
IMHO, You're asking a lot of Chris M. So, what are you willing to give back?
Would you be as willing to ask more of yourself and the other reviewers as you are to ask Chris for more and more and more?
I submit scripts for the feedback. I want to learn to write better stories in proper format so that I can actually sell those scripts in future. I pay for that by trying to give honest and helpful reviews to everyone else who submits here. That's the ONLY thing MP asks of us.
Sylvia inspired me to organize how I review. She has a list of things she looks at in each script, comments on each one, and moves on to the next. I add a daily quota based on how many I have left to get through. It's an efficient way to get through the reviews and, hopefully, it's helpful to the writers. Her system and the logline reviews took me to level 5 and it was a very exciting moment for me (I'm so easy...)
Also, wasn't there discussion last year about the growing number of submissions each month and how to handle that? And another about the quality of the reviews we were getting? Wasn't this new system established to improve the old?
It's never going to be perfect for everyone, but it's pretty damn fair.
So there's my 2 cents. I leave the soap box to the next opinion...
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 10:42 AM
Thanks for this Margaret.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 10:51 AM
The suggestion I made would only benefit those people who ARE giving 100% reviewing. I look at a daunting 4 months or possible more of not submitting, because I am only a measly level 4.
I'm wondering if there will be time when the only people participating fully are level 5s. New people will look at what it takes make level 5 and be discouraged. Honestly if I looked at it before hand I might not have started and then I would have missed all the great things this site has to offer.
My suggestion stays faithful the intent of the level system by staying true to the people who review every screenplay.
Scott Merrow (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 11:05 AM
I'm also a "measly" Level 4, with 319 reviews -- 153 to go to make Level 5. I'm perfectly happy with the system the way it is.
What's the rush?
I fear that a system that allows anyone to enter a contest if they've simply reviewed all the previous month's entries might encourage some people to rush through their reviews (some people do it already), and what would be the value of that?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 11:14 AM
Chris has already said he will consider your idea.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 11:18 AM
It'll at least remove the discouragement some new people will face when first signing up and seeing the 500+ reviews needed for Level 5, Scott. And I think the psychology of Chris K's idea will be much better than the current system. Instead of a new person thinking to themself: "Man, I gotta review so many scripts just to get my fair share of submissions...", they'll instead think "Oh, I only have to review 30-40. That ain't so bad."
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 11:30 AM
Yes - fair to those people who are prepared to give the time and put in the effort to progress through the levels.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 11:39 AM
"Yes - fair to those people who are prepared to give the time and put in the effort to progress through the levels."
Is this Amway?
"IMHO, You're asking a lot of Chris M. So, what are you willing to give back?"
Is this a cult?
Before we drink the Koolaid, lets just step back and think this is a website. Chris M. can do whatever he wants. Several of us have just expressed are opinions that's it. No one is attacking anyone or in any way belittling the efforts of Chris M. or the moderators.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 11:59 AM
Chris K., I wasn't saying your suggestion isn't a good one. It is. And I know Chris M. will think it over thoroughly.
I empathize with your frustration at trying to get to level 5. I felt like it was impossible myself. You'll probably be reviewing away some day, look up at your own name, and see a (level 5) next to it. I'm expecting to hear a celebration when it happens. :D
Until then, write and review as if you'll be able to enter every contest from now on. Like it or not, only 10 members will be able to participate in the 3rd round of the feature contest, so that's a month off writing for the rest of us. Then there's the film contest month. That's another month of no writing, and I can't imagine everyone will be able to get a film made.
And we don't know what Chris' decision will be yet... He's a pretty good man and he's dedicated to us. US. He's created a community, not a website. We are MPers!
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:30 PM
No - unfair because if a brand new person reviews EVERY script for EVERY month and puts in ALL the time and effort possible, they'll STILL be denied several contests. How do you rationalize that to be fair?
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:34 PM
"I fear that a system that allows anyone to enter a contest if they've simply reviewed all the previous month's entries might encourage some people to rush through their reviews (some people do it already), and what would be the value of that?"
And what would be the difference? You're going to get that in either method. The main difference is one method is fair and the other is not.
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 12:38 PM
The current method is fair.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 12:42 PM
If anyone reviews "EVERY script for EVERY month and puts in ALL the time and effort possible" then they will be able to enter every contest in the fullness of time.
Unfair in MY world is the ethos of people whose only thought process revolves around "How can I enter EVERY contest while expending minimum effort, reviewing as few scripts as possible, and with as few words as possible?"
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:43 PM
"The current method is fair."
Please read my second-to-last post.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:45 PM
"Unfair in MY world is the ethos of people whose only thought process revolves around "How can I enter EVERY contest while expending minimum effort, reviewing as few scripts as possible, and with as few words as possible?""
Irrelevant. Not everyone has that mindset. You said so yourself. Many people are truly e dedicated to growing as writers and being part of a supportive community. How is it fair, then, to exclude them from participating even if they put forth all the effort possible?
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:48 PM
"If anyone reviews "EVERY script for EVERY month and puts in ALL the time and effort possible" then they will be able to enter every contest in the fullness of time."
Maybe my math is wrong. If a new person joined the site, it would take them well over a year of reviewing every single entry for every single month (assuming 40 entries per month). And the level requirements will only increase with each month, making it harder and harder. Is that incorrect?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 12:56 PM
Nobody who puts forward all the effort possible is excluded from anything on MoviePoet.
Really Travis - if MoviePoet and its ethos is so repugnant to you, why are you still here?
I found NYCMM went against all my principles of decency and fairplay so I voted with my feet and I LEFT.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 12:58 PM
Here's my arithmetic.
40 entries a month (assumed average) for 12 months. Put that together and there's 480 possible reviews to be gained. The current Level 5 review-limit is 472.
Now, the review limit increases each month. I'm not sure how much, though. But regardless, even after 6 months, the limit for Level 5 will be (much?) more than it is now. Thus, it will be impossible for a new person to enter every contest even if they put forth all possible effort.
I've always been terrible at math, so if I'm wrong someone let me know.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 1:00 PM
"Really Travis - if MoviePoet and its ethos is so repugnant to you, why are you still here? "
I don't find it repugnant at all, so let's go easy on the hyperbole. I just think this current system can and should be improved.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/21/2009 1:38 PM
1. Everyone take a deep relaxing breath. I appreciate all of the feedback, positive and negative.
2. As I said before, I will seriously think about Chris's suggestion (it definitely has merit). But, nothing will happen anytime soon, as I am in the middle of launching NJ Film School.
3. Travis, No big deal, but your math is wrong. As I already said, we are averaging well over 50 entries a month (and that is not even counting months like the logline challenge). Also, as I pointed out above, it would have taken someone only the last 8 months to reach level 5.
4. Most importantly, I hope to encourage quality reviews and quality entries. It should not be about quantity. Honestly, if everyone entered every month, the mods and I would simply not be able to keep the site running as it would become a full time job. :)
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 2:01 PM
How I became a Movie Poet?
-by Rustom Irani
I took part in a competition for screenwriting at the NYCMM competition in 2005. Some of the writers were writers who had done this before.
Others were new like me. I was new. I screen-wrote.
You could give feedback to other writers for what they wrote.
The judges promised to give feedback but the other writers also gave feedback.
I liked them. They gave good feedback.
Some others were big, bad, meanies. They ganged up on you. People got atomic verbal wedgies. I don't know if they had it coming.
I knew I should be quiet if I wanted to be honest. Or stop wearing undies.
The judges never gave us feedback. We were like free range chicken in the forums.
The year after that I joined up because I loved some of the nicer writers.
Chris was nice. He had never won, but he wrote stuff that won in my book. Charlie kept stalking me in a nice way. Caroline reminded me of what it is to be a writer with a background in UK English, with a hilarious script written in a thick Irish accent. There was Tony and Aimee and Pia and Kirk and Bill Bienes and lotsa others.
I loved it when they spoke their mind and held nothing back.
Winning did not matter so much then. I screen-wrote better from the stuff they told me did not work. I became a film writer.
Then more bad things happened. Ceiling fans getting dirty, kinda stuff. I ran away.
Then Charlie traced me. He was funny and scary. Told me that nice fella Chris had started this site.
Poetry for Movies. You write short. But you write the best in that short.
If you write the bestest short, you will at least write the gooder full.
Said, you could be honest about the other peoples writing and they wouldn't know until after the contest ends. I liked that.
Said, the winners would be selected by the other writers. I liked that even more.
Said, it was free.
I am now a three year old Movie Poet.
I have entered eleven contests, revied 600+ scripts and never placed in the top three.
Chris never asked me for anything. I believe he is from one of Jupiter's moons. I have a drwaing of him as an alien.
So, every time I log on, I ask myself,
"Why am I still doing this?"
I do this for screen-writing.
I do this so that at least 5 other writers, who would normally pass my e-mail for spam in the real world, take five to ten minutes from their day and write five short sentences about my script.
I think the winners are lucky. The other writers made them so.
I made them so.
I like writing reviews. Not everyone might like them. Not everyone is good at them.
But everyone likes to win. Everyobdy can't win.
To win one needs reviews.
Winning and getting reviews is then the same. And if getting reviews is the same as winning, what about giving them?
Shouldn't givers win somehow? They made the writers win.
Chris thought so.
They now get a chance to win because they can enter many contests if they make many other people win.
See spot run. Run! Spot! Run!
This is how I became a moviepoet.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 5/21/2009 2:21 PM
Rusty, You're crazy, but I love you. :)
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 2:29 PM
Fair enough. But if the site is trending toward more entries, then the level limits will increase more and faster with every month. It may have taken 8 months back then, but that will increase with time, correct? How long until it takes 9 months? Or 12+? It will be fair enough for those here who already have a stash of reviews under their belt, but not for the new people.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 2:30 PM
So, I'm like Gary Busey?
Erich VonHeeder (Level 4) ~ 5/21/2009 2:36 PM
I gave your post a GOOD. I think you have some decent ideas in there, but they didn't really start coming out until the very end and I'm not sure your by-line is formatted correctly.
Keep writing and working on your English and good luck in the future.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 2:40 PM
Is a GOOD like a C+ or an A-?
Coz' then I've to work hard at getting a Greyhound racing scholarship.
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/21/2009 2:49 PM
Irony -- thread title "It's quiet..."
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 2:58 PM
Rusti rocks and rolls! Go, MPers!
William Coleman (Level 5) ~ 5/21/2009 3:26 PM
This discussion is running around in hypothetical circles.
I vote to stay as we are, but let's leave it in Chris' hands - and please, oh, please, don't try to caus ehim a lot of work!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2009 3:36 PM
"So, I'm like Gary Busey"
I've never seen both of you in the same place at the same time, so I posit that you are, in fact, Gary Busey.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 11/27/2009 5:19 PM
I'm experiencing some deja vu here...
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 11/27/2009 6:22 PM
I'm full... almost TOO full...
Ah... that's better.
Michael Cornetto (Level 5) ~ 11/27/2009 6:33 PM
If it's quiet, it means we are all busy writing, right?
Sally Meyer (Moderator) ~ 11/27/2009 10:28 PM
JeanPierre Chapoteau (Moderator) ~ 11/28/2009 2:21 AM
I just finished reading this entire thread. I'm considering starting the debate again by saying... ;) Just kidding.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 11/28/2009 3:44 AM
It's, oh, so quiet shh,shh
It's, oh, so still shh,shh
You're all alone shh, shh
And so peaceful until...
You fall in love
The sky up above
Is caving in
You've never been so nuts about a guy
You wanna laugh you wanna cry
You cross your heart and hope to die
'Til it's over and then...
Good ole Bjork :)
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 11/28/2009 8:55 AM
Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl
With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there
She would merengue and do the cha-cha
And while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar
Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4
They were young and they had each other
Who could ask for more?
At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana)
The hottest spot north of Havana (here)
At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana
Music and passion were always the fashion
At the Copa....they fell in love
Barry Manilow's in da' house. Bjork is a tough act to follow.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 11/28/2009 2:32 PM
I love Bjork (her music and many of her videos).
Paul Williams (Level 5) ~ 11/28/2009 2:46 PM
Ever see that video of her attacking a paparazzo at the airport?
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 4/6/2010 9:45 PM
It's quiet again. Is everyone too busy reviewing "It's Alive" to post in the forum?
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 4/6/2010 11:01 PM
I have returned...hope that's not the reason. :-/
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 4/7/2010 12:50 AM
Oh shit, Pia's back? Well... Guess I'm out then. Someone send me an email when she takes another hiatus.
Just kidding of course. ;o)
Sylvia Dahlby (Level 5) ~ 4/7/2010 1:51 AM
I agree with the comment, this thread is weird. You get by giving. And you learn by participating. I like that the MP system is now set up to reward writers who give more than they receive through participation. I am grateful for Chris and the mods, and the selfless work they do to maintain this site.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 4/8/2010 11:53 AM
Sorry, I've been a bit absent lately - too much going on in this month. I still haven't begun my ten pages yet, but I will definitely get them done.
Sally Meyer (Moderator) ~ 4/8/2010 12:04 PM
I haven't started either, Chris. Too much going on here also.
MJ Hermanny (Level 5) ~ 4/24/2010 3:50 AM
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 4/24/2010 3:55 AM
It's funny, I was just thinking the same thing as I finished my reviews for the month.
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 4/24/2010 6:27 AM
Yesterday I wondered if there was something wrong with my computer because it was so quiet at MP.
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 9:14 PM
Maybe it's just me, but the site seems abnormally quiet these past few weeks. There were hardly any post contest script comments and the discussion forum is barely getting any discussions. Where is everyone? Enjoying the last few days/weeks of summer perhaps? Maybe working on their short films for Novemeber?
Matias Caruso (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 9:17 PM
Agreed. Let's start some trouble. :)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/8/2010 10:08 PM
I love starting trouble. Or being a pest. Usually both if I can manage it.
Hey Brian... I'm back to working on my Zombie script! Got 20 pages in almost a year ago and dropped it for two other scripts. Back on the Zombie horse.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 10:22 PM
Wow, Tim! A zombie horse script! Cool!
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 10:31 PM
That's my idea!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/8/2010 10:39 PM
Zombie Horse (C) 2010 Tim Westland - All Right Reserved - WGA#908345098723
Philip Whitcroft (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 10:47 PM
Zombeauty. Good luck training a horse to walk with its front legs sticking out!
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 10:57 PM
Would a zombie horse eat the brains of scarecrows?
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 9/8/2010 11:24 PM
Haven't you seen Wizard of Oz? Scarecrows don't have brains. Speaking of zombies and horses.... Anyone seen Survival of the Dead yet? There's a zombie on horseback in there. Not exactly one of Romero's finest moments (although the film as a whole is pretty cool.)
Cool Tim. Send it over when you get it done. I'll give it a look.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/8/2010 11:54 PM
Right on, Brian. But only if it doesn't end up sucking.
As for a Zombie on a horse... I think it would have been cool if the Zombie had his teeth around the horses rear leg and the horse was just sorta dragging the zombie along. Fun visual.
Dan Delgado (Level 5) ~ 9/9/2010 12:23 AM
"I always wished you could enter 8 contests a year instead of 6 at Level 4. It's a lot easier to maintain level 4 if you're really busy (like me), and you won't have to lose out on any of the old-fashioned 5-page contest months."
Oh goody, a chance to revisit this topic.
Why not allow Level 4s to enter an extra script for each fifty reviews over votes they receive (up to nine scripts per year)?
For example: 450 Reviews -- 400 Votes + 1 script = 7 Entries per year. 500 Reviews -- 400 Votes + 2 scripts = 8 Entries per year. 550 Reviews -- 400 Votes + 3 scripts = 9 Entries per year.
Of course in order to reach those numbers you'd have to stop submitting scripts and review everything that came up.
I just thought I'd throw salt on the wound and attempt to make a very complicated website even more complicated. (I have no idea how it crunches all the numbers it crunches now and keeps on ticking along.)
And I could see it now: "So you think Level 4 is something special do you? Well I'm a Tier 2, Level 4. Ha!"
(By the way, I'm not serious.)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/9/2010 12:25 AM
I wanna be a Level 80 Undead Death Knight
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 9/9/2010 12:50 AM
Dan's suggestion is going to make Chris's head explode. The coding for that would be a nightmare.
Sylvia Dahlby (Level 5) ~ 9/11/2010 2:30 AM
I've been quiet because my day job has been very demanding this yr, the economy is tough & all. I've taken several of business trips - with four more between now & the end of the yr. I can't believe it's September already.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 9/11/2010 12:59 PM
Can't help asking - Sylvia, you said you were a copywriter, so a copywriter has to take trips too? I'm so nosy. I shouldn't be asking, it's just sometimes there's that one question...
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 9/11/2010 6:48 PM
Tim - The horse dragging the zombie thing is a great visual. You should use that in your zombie script.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/25/2010 1:54 AM
Bump. Where the heck is everyone? What're you doing? What are you writing?
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 9/25/2010 3:53 AM
I just finished reviewing. My average was around 3,900 characters. Whew! You still up?
KP Mackie (Level 5) ~ 9/25/2010 4:11 AM
Usually it's just us Californians...
Sylvia Dahlby (Level 5) ~ 9/25/2010 5:24 PM
Just got back from 10 days on the road (vacation) & now I have more laundry than god.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 2/27/2011 1:36 AM
... almost too quiet... (bump)
MJ Hermanny (Level 5) ~ 2/27/2011 1:55 PM
reviewing frantically... like me perhaps?
Heather O'Connell (Level 4) ~ 2/27/2011 4:49 PM
MJ Hermanny (Level 5) ~ 2/27/2011 5:04 PM
Bambang Yudianto (Level 3) ~ 2/27/2011 10:09 PM
I have an idea. You see I'm an avid RPG games fan (although I only played several of them) and this thought has just hit me: Why not encoporating RPG level system? So instead of having 5 levels, what if we make them 99 levels? I know that we can only enter 12 contest a year, but we can make the other 87 entry quotas as some kinda savings. And we can put some interest rate for the deposits. Perhaps we can even set up a bank so that new people can borrow some entry quotas from the bank. Everyone can really benefit from this system.
Okay, so enough with the capitalist agenda and let's bit more serious. :)
After reading the posts above, I feel that receiving reviews or giving them is the only benefit that we can gain from this community. I completely agree that entering the contest and receiving reviews is a way to know how far we have advance in scriptwriting, and that writing review can make you into better writer, but that's the only way we can benefit from this community. A least not for me.
I've joined since 2007, but only entered 3 contests, receiving 164 reviews and (sadly) giving only 33 reviews. But I still benefit a lot by reading other people script and read the reviews other member gave. I still can learn from best thing that they've done and from their mistakes.
The number of entry quota is not the one that hinders me from entering the contest, it's my grammar and typos. :P
Writing review is always a difficult task for me because usually I just don't know what to say. I got a lot of support and encouragement to just write them because eventually that can make me as a better reviewer and writer. Thanks everyone for that, but I think I'll spend more time to read than to write for the moment. That's why it didn't bothered me much when I found out that I just dropped to level 2 from level 3. It's okay, because level is irrelevant to my learning progress in here anyway :)
Oh one more thing, I just wondering why I cant use the greater than or less than sign in here. It hinders me from making a devilish smile :)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 2/28/2011 12:14 AM
Bambang - where the heck have you been?!?! Glad to see you back on the board.
Last point first - Chris probably prevents using the greater than character programmatically because it is one of several "dangerous" characters used by hackers to perform SQL injection. Suffice it to say that it's a bad thing he doesn't want to have happen to his site.
As for your english worries - look, the only way to overcome any perceived shortcomings is to exercise your skills.
Yes, I will comment about language issues when I review a script, but that happens just as often with native english speakers (Ms. Coxon) as it does with non-native speakers.
The solution is to find a native english speaker and have them read your stuff before you submit. It might not solve all problems, but it will help.
And it will keep you writing.
Also, comments on language are rarely a point that causes a change in the scores I give. It's about story, plot, theme, execution, etc. If Ms. Coxon writes, "... injured and taken to hospital..." as opposed to, "... injured and taken to the hospital...", I'm not going to mark down. I'd mention it, that's all. ;-)
So get in there and write. Show Caroline what it is to finally master the American langu... er... English language!
Jessica Burde (Level 3) ~ 2/28/2011 10:06 AM
Speaking of American language - do folks point out differences between English and American? I definitely wouldn't mark down for it, but there have been a few reviews (esp. in loglines) where I've said something like 'I think this is standard for British English, but it sounds strange to an American and if you're submitting to Hollywood you might want to rewrite it in American English.'
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 2/28/2011 3:20 PM
Jessica... that's exactly what I would do. Point it out politely, but not mark down.
Hey, if people (and you know who you are) can point out my overuse of the word "Frickin", then I can point out "behaviour" and it's all even steven. :-)
Bambang Yudianto (Level 3) ~ 2/28/2011 7:43 PM
I just found out that I joined MP around 9 months after Chris M and Caroline C. Now I feel like I'm the worst advert for this community.
Yaiks. I'd better hibernate again for awhile ~_~
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 3:18 PM
Where is everybody?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/16/2011 3:57 PM
Well, I'm here!
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 4:12 PM
Is it just you and me on for today, or is my computer not registering the chat?
Just read a script I'm pretty sure is yours. Five more to go this month.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/16/2011 4:25 PM
You're wrong about the script! I haven't entered this month - too busy with other writing projects.
Maybe it IS just you and me. We could talk about everyone else behind their backs :)
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 4:33 PM
How about that Tim guy? Or Rusti!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 3/16/2011 4:35 PM
I say we talk all mean and stuff about Rusti and just ignore me altogether.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/16/2011 4:44 PM
We missed our chance, Margaret :(
(I'm not allowed to say mean things about Rusty or I may have to hand in my Moderator's lunch-box.)
David Birch (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 5:05 PM
i'm here...going to the julie gray lecture at the "writer's junction" in santa monica tonight...will try to make an audio file of it, if possible...went to the meet and greet "a night with peter guber" (legendary hollywood exec) last night at UCLA...i have the audio of that...it's 90 minutes...too big to send out..any suggestions?...
Sally Meyer (Moderator) ~ 3/16/2011 6:13 PM
I am here too, just busy trying to finish a feature script and trying to come up with a five page Deja Vu story.
Got all my reviews done, I hope to go over them one more time before the end of the month.
Ayal Pinkus (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 6:18 PM
I'm here. I'd noticed the silence too. Japan probably on many minds...
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 3/16/2011 6:39 PM
I miss the quiet
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 6:44 PM
I'm rereading the entries too. And working on a feature to the logline that didn't go through. I already know how to rewrite the logline but we'll ask you all as soon as I'm done with the feature. Actually I've been using every tool to avoid working on the feature and writing half a page a day. Even started another entry for Deja Vu... -will have to choose in the end.
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 3/16/2011 7:46 PM
I'm here, but was told to sit in the corner and be quiet...and what's with this stupid looking hat I have to wear??
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 3/16/2011 9:06 PM
I believe you are sitting in my spot, Pia. Scoot over. And lend me that hat. It doesn't fit you very well.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/16/2011 9:25 PM
There's plenty of room on the Naughty Step.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 3/16/2011 10:39 PM
"I miss the quiet"
MJ Hermanny (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 9:16 AM
what did I miss?
I must say it's nice to have company under this hat. Mine was self imposed though - what did Tim and Pia do?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/17/2011 9:59 AM
I think they'd better tell you themselves...
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 12:44 PM
And now I'm restraining myself from asking MJ if she was asking what Tim and Pia did under that hat.
My restraining effort doesn't go very well....
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 2:58 PM
Leo Tolstoy came up with a math problem for 2nd graders once. I wonder if I should post it here, it's somewhat related to writing perhaps (forgive my silly logic if it's not) because it's 1) written by a writer and 2) it was published in schoolbooks once. However it's a math problem although very fun one.
Caroline will think I flipped after reading this:) --for sure. I have flipped (yes!) but hopefully it'll be gone by tomorrow. Anyway, if someone wants me to post the problem I will. ...unless a mod tells me not to.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/17/2011 3:35 PM
Are you going to post it in Russian like you did on Facebook? :)
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 3:54 PM
:) I translated it into English.
It amazes me that this great writer could come up with a problem, did not provide us with the answer and people spend hours thinking about it, not because it's by Tolstoy but the problem calls for it. It's a money problem and the answers range from 15rubles (Russian currency) to 50 rubles. Really, I saw people answer 15, 25, 30, 35, 40 and 50.
It doesn't test your intelligence by the way, nor math skills (or any skills for that matter). It might let you know if you're street smart, perhaps - I don't know.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/17/2011 5:07 PM
I think you'd better post it now having whet everyone's appetite!
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 6:32 PM
A Guy sells a hat for 10 rubles. A customer buys a hat and hands the Guy a 25 ruble bill. The Guy sends a boy over to a neighbor to get him 10+10+5 for that 25 ruble bill. The boy comes back with 10 +10+5; the Guy hands the hat and the change (15 rubles) to the customer. The customer leaves. The neighbor (who exchanged the money for the Guy) comes back, claims the 25rub bill is a counterfeit and wants his money back. The Guy gets the neighbor his 25 rub.
How much money did the Guy loose?
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 6:50 PM
10 for the hat.
15 - change to the customer
25 - back to the neighbor (but 10 of that was 'profit' from the sale, so he only loses 15)
So 10+15+15 = 40 rubles is what he lost.
But, to throw a kink into, the hat didn't cost the Guy 10 rubles, or else he would have sold it for more. So technically, we can't say he lost the full 10 rubles on the hat. But without that information we are left to calculate the full asking price of the hat.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 6:57 PM
He got 25 from the neighbor but he didn't use it all - 10 rubles he left for himself.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 7:00 PM
Technically 25 was not his money so he lost only 15 I think.
25 from the neighbor (gain 10)
Then he payed 25 back to the neighbor.
25 that he payed to the neighbor minus 10 (gain) is 15.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 7:22 PM
Um... Brian... Check your figures... 10 + 15 + 25 = 50. I think.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 7:24 PM
10 for the hat and 25 to the neighbor = 35
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 7:25 PM
He made $10 on the hat sale. Lost $25 on repaying the counterfeit bill.
Lost $15 total.
Bryony Quigly (Level 3) ~ 3/17/2011 7:57 PM
How can you get 50 rubles as your answer (logically) when the question is pointing towards a monetary loss, not a gain?
My answer was 15 too (I think).
KP Mackie (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 9:20 PM
All you brave souls.
Not touching this math puzzle with a ten-foot...no, a 50 foot...pole. :)
JeanPierre Chapoteau (Moderator) ~ 3/17/2011 9:22 PM
Yeah, the problem is that we don't know the value of the hat. But if it's 10 rubles, then the answer is...
He lost 10 off the hat then basically gave away 25 to the neighbor. Whatever he received and gave away to the customer is irrelevant because the whole exchange was surrounded by fake bills. He never touched any of his own money until he had to pay the neighbor.
JeanPierre Chapoteau (Moderator) ~ 3/17/2011 9:23 PM
Keaton has it right. I tried to avoid looking at the answers before I submitted my own.
Bambang Yudianto (Level 3) ~ 3/17/2011 9:33 PM
Put it chronologically:
- $10 (hat), net total= -10
+ $25 bill, net total= 15
- $25 bill, net total= -10 *
+ $(10+10+5), net total= 15 *
- $15 change, net total= 0
- $25 to neighbor, net total= -25 *
so net loss is $25
* assuming that there was no counterfeit bill, $0 would be his total loss (not counting for the base price of the hat)
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 10:53 PM
Let's put this in time sequence with a running total.
Guy has to purchase or make the hat, this takes some sort of investment. We don't know what it was, so let's assume the same value... 10 rubles.
sells hat for 10. He's given 25 (fake), and gives change of 15. If the 25 had been real, his balance would be 0, but the 25 isn't real, so the 15 he gave as change is a loss because it came from his own pocket. The 10 he got for the hat is real, so his balance at this point is what he lost by giving change...
Now the neighbor comes back and wants his 25 back, which he gives out of his own pocket, therefore losing another 25, bringing his total loss to 15+25...
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 11:18 PM
He exchanged the 25 for smaller bills to the neighbor. Now with 25 real dollars he kept his 10 and gave 15 to the crook. Neighbor noticed the fake bill and demanded his 25 back. So dude gave him 25 and was out the hat at 10, so 35. Not sure how this is so confusing?
Brian Wind (Level 5) ~ 3/17/2011 11:36 PM
Why are you guys figuring he lost 10 on the hat? He made 10 on the sale of the hat, then dished out 25 of his own cash to the neighbor, hence his total is -15.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 3/18/2011 12:10 AM
I miss the quiet
And for the record, the answer is - and always will be - 42.
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 12:18 AM
No Wonder we don't all agree about what makes a good logline or script, we can't even agree with facts.
The hat has to be considered because he basically gave it away. Had he not given it away, he would have sold it to someone else for 10. If you have a problem factoring in future earnings into the loss equation, fine, but then you must consider the investment. Either way, the hat is a loss.
Yes, the 15 he gave to the customer was real money, but as soon as he returns the 25 to the neighbor, that 15 of real money became money from his own pocket, therefore a loss.
The 15 was "purchased" from the neighbor with the useless, counterfeit bill. Once the shopkeeper returns 25 to the neighbor, he is left with a useless, counterfeit bill, but he has given away 15 and 25 (the 10 he received is washed out with the loss of the hat).
I'm sure people still don't see it the same as me, but if I was the shopkeeper, this is how I would report the loss.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 12:31 AM
I could see the argument for 25. Since the 10 he retained was real.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 12:32 AM
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 12:35 AM
This problem came with some statistic which I didn't care to translate:
"Only 30% of high schoolers, 20% of college students and 10% of bank workers or those with the accounting degree could solve this problem" - as you can see the percentage goes down instead of up:)
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 12:46 AM
I had to include the word "today", sorry. "Today only 30%..."
KP Mackie (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 1:02 AM
Exactly why I wouldn't go near this.
So, what color was the hat?
No way. I got 39.
Where'd the extra 3 come from? :)
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 1:13 AM
I know how to prove my answer! Finally!
Think how much money the others gained: the neighbor got 0 from all this transaction. the crook gained 15 rubles and the hat. Which means (to me at least) that the man lost only 15 and the hat.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 3/18/2011 1:15 AM
@KP - Douglas Adams (RIP)
My answer: -$15 without the hat (cash loss only). -$25 if the hat is worth $10 and we count it.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 1:47 AM
KP, the statistics is probably not true at all. It sounds friendly though, I think - if you're an accountant (or close) your chances on solving the problem diminish:) If there's the right solution to - like a screenplay it's subjective:)
JeanPierre Chapoteau (Moderator) ~ 3/18/2011 5:16 AM
@ Brian Howell - You got lost when Guy exchanged the fake $25 for the real thing, therefore the $15 would not have come out of his own pocket.
@ Tim - I changed my mind and I agree with you. It now makes perfect sense... for now. Here it is:
Guy would have given Neighbor the REAL $10 he earned for the purchase, so Guy would have only given $15 out of his own pocket PLUS we have to factor in the lost of that hat, which is $10. So the total is $25, right?!! I mean that makes perfect sense.
No more disputes because that's the right answer.
Brian Howell (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 5:58 AM
Hypothetically.... let's break it down, step by step.
Shopkeeper starts with a hat, and $40... cash on hand is $40.
Customer gives him $25 for the hat.
Shopkeeper is now holding $65, plus the hat... cash on hand is $65
He gives the hat to the customer... cash on hand is still $65
He can't make change, so the shopkeeper gives the $25 to his neighbor for $25... cash on hand is still $65.
He gives the customer his change... -$15... cash on hand is $50... which is +$10 from where he started.
Now the neighbor comes to take back his $25. The shopkeeper gives the neighbor $25 and gets back $25... cash on hand is $50
But, $25 of that is fake, so the shopkeeper is left with $25, which is -$15 from where he started, plus he's down a hat too. So I was wrong. He either lost $15 if you just count the money, or $25 if you factor in the worth of the hat.
That sure got the wheels turning... Thanks Khamanna!
David D. DeBord (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 8:54 AM
Math Schmath. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 11:41 AM
When I googled this problem in Russian it returned 1050 pages. If only you could see some of them. Over 500 comments to the problem, people fighting...
Oh these writers... - so respectful... and look, everyone agreed today... you people are hopeless! -in a good way:)
Tim got his quiet back, I guess.
Bambang Yudianto (Level 3) ~ 3/18/2011 12:24 PM
This problem will be solved easily if you make/keep a ledger. I think calling this a math problem is a distraction because I think this is an accounting problem. Although, IMHO, it's not actually a problem if you're an accountant.
He lost $10 from the hat and $15 from the change he gave. Other transactions are cancel out each other.
So I'll stick to my ledger solution:
- $10 (hat), net total= -10
+ $25 bill, net total= 15
- $25 bill, net total= -10 *
+ $(10+10+5), net total= 15 *
- $15 change, net total= 0
- $25 to neighbor, net total= -25 *
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 1:58 PM
Here's an accounting question (non-related to the problem and would be good to know): if an item costs you $2 but you can sell it for $10 but you somehow lost the item, how would you report it in your ledger - $2 or $10?
I have an accountant in one of my scripts and she talks about "receivables and accrued" - had to ask an accountant, who by the way laughed at me and my initial ideas on receivables a bit:)
Bambang Yudianto (Level 3) ~ 3/18/2011 9:19 PM
@Khamanna: you lost $2. There is (or is it "there are"? I can't remember) account for merchandise loss/damage, you simply put the purchase value of the lost goods. $10 is the future value when the item is sold. Accounting, AFAIK, only deals with transactions that has already happens.
Sean Chipman (Level 4) ~ 3/18/2011 10:46 PM
I don't know. Looking at it, I got two different answers and could properly explain both of them which is obviously wrong.
The answer I like best, though, is the Guy loses 50 Rubles.
15 for the change he gave the customer.
25 for what he paid back to the neighbor.
10 he lost because he doesn't have a hat to sell, now.
50. That's my answer.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/18/2011 11:28 PM
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/19/2011 12:31 AM
I'm with Sean.
Chris Keaton (Level 5) ~ 3/19/2011 1:06 AM
Bambang has my vote. All though I guess you really can't vote on facts, but now a days everything is up to opinion.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 3/19/2011 2:44 PM
I'm with voting Khamanna evil math person of the week, too.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 3/19/2011 4:50 PM
Evil maths (it has an s at the end in Brit Speak) person of the week who posts in Russian on Facebook so I have to go to Great Lengths to translate it!
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 3/19/2011 5:28 PM
so that there's no confusion and people read it twice as it's not easy to believe your eyes when you read something like this:
I posted something in Russian, but wrote it in Latin letters but Caroline reposted it in cyrillic with a prompt translation into Russian... (not an easy text too)...
I'm totally tamed now and posting only in English. :)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/17/2011 10:06 PM
I miss Rusty. Where is that cantankerous, mischievous, silly native of India?
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/18/2011 1:36 AM
Very busy with various film projects!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/18/2011 1:45 AM
Thanks, CC. Hopefully he checks in and says, "Helllllooooooo". I miss his humor.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 5/18/2011 7:25 AM
He can never resist a compliment...
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 5/21/2011 7:42 AM
I'm so crashing at your pad if the rapture takes place today, Tim!
And I'm more of a rotund, raunchy, rivetting, rapscallion of India.
I can never resist a compliment from a gal. But I have a soft spot in my heart of wise-asses too. As a kid they used to tell me I was a wise-ass beyond my years.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 5/23/2011 1:34 AM
Sorry Rustoleum... no Rapture.
I was looking forward to not having any bills and being reduced to "hunter/gatherer" status. Oh well.
Sylvia Dahlby (Level 5) ~ 5/25/2011 2:06 AM
I guess now that the end of the world is over we can all get back to work...
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 5/25/2011 5:02 PM
Was there the MP convention on May 20th?
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 7/8/2012 12:08 PM
Wow. Quiet weekend so far.
Sean Chipman (Level 4) ~ 7/8/2012 5:11 PM
The irony is not lost (on me) on the fact that a message stating how quiet it's been is responded to over five hours later...
It is odd that it has been pretty quiet, though. Lots of writing and reviewing? One can hope.
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 7/8/2012 9:57 PM
Except for the original post being in 2009... :)
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 7/10/2012 9:19 AM
I didn't want to start a new thread when we already had the perfect one going. It just doesn't get used that often.
Which is good.
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 7/10/2012 11:33 AM
I know. I think this thread has been resurrected a few times before. Maybe it's quiet because of summer and people are on vacation? :)
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 7/10/2012 3:59 PM
...or they are writing away.
Sean Chipman (Level 4) ~ 7/10/2012 6:14 PM
One can hope. That's what I'm doing. Rather, re-writing.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 8/19/2012 1:04 AM
you know the score
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 8/20/2012 12:21 AM
What score is that, Tim? I've had a few too many vodkas to figure it out on my own...
And I don't give a rat's that it's true.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 8/20/2012 1:05 AM
The score is: that was my attempt to get people to "conversate" (as Vinnie Barbarino would have said).
Enjoy those Vodkas... just don't drive.
Matthew Fettig (Level 5) ~ 8/20/2012 1:08 AM
Tim - Shouldn't you be writing not reading?
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 8/20/2012 1:10 AM
Alright, you... I wrote 8 pages today. Take THAT! ;-)
Matthew Fettig (Level 5) ~ 8/20/2012 1:19 AM
8 pages...sure...but how GOOD were they? Huh?
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 8/20/2012 1:29 AM
Well... my wife did read them and then acted as if I shat on my hand and slapped it on her desk.
Matthew Fettig (Level 5) ~ 8/20/2012 1:31 AM
Tim..come on, buddy, relax. Take a deep breath...breathe in...let it out. That's good. Those were great pages. Every one of them. Take another breath...good. In and out. That's it. Now..very slowly...put the highlighter down...
MJ Hermanny (Level 5) ~ 8/20/2012 8:10 AM
@ Tim - haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Oooh that made me laugh. I haven't checked in for a while and I'm so glad I dropped by - just to read those two posts!
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/22/2012 1:57 PM
I'm busy lettering the 3rd issue of Chasing The Dead.
What are all you folks doing?
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 9/22/2012 3:32 PM
Last week I started to get notes back from my FINDING VERITY Beta Readers so I've been working on a major rewrite. Also, finalized the short for the WHERE AM I? challenge.
Caroline Coxon (Mod Emeritus) ~ 9/22/2012 3:33 PM
Reviewing the features...
Bill Sarre (Level 5) ~ 9/22/2012 5:22 PM
Looking for a writing site that's active.....
....I .just love getting involved, talking, writing etc etc. you can tell I'm new.!!!
Writing is a new thing in my life, in relative terms about 18 months (i'm over 40 years vintage) So, the more challenges the better for me, don't mind where, what.
In the meantime, I'm trying finish the next MP entry. Not sure if I'm flogging a dead horse, making it to complicated etc - how much can you fit in five pages? The competitive demon in me wants another top three - doomed to fail!
All the best
Reginald McGhee (Level 0) ~ 9/22/2012 7:56 PM
Have you tried http://www.writingforums.org ?
Ayal Pinkus (Level 5) ~ 9/23/2012 8:51 AM
Tim, awesome, you're making comics :-)
I've started work on storyboards for a British filmmaker I met on LinkedIn. He needs the storyboards to interest investors. And polishing my entry for "Where am I?" And trying to find the energy to also review another feature...
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 9/23/2012 9:26 AM
I'm writing a feature in Russian.
No, no - more like I think I'm writing a feature in Russian:)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/23/2012 12:56 PM
Ayal - in case you haven't seen the other posts in other threads about this project, the comic is based on my script (which is an adaptation of a novel by Joe Schreiber).
Aside from the geeky coolness of having a comic book out in the world with my name on it, my hope is that it serves to bring people "in the business" to my project.
Also, it could be considered a REALLY REALLY REALLY good storyboard.
Issue #1 is available for pre-order online now and will be in stores in November. I think that sounds so funny. Not sure why. ;-)
Ayal Pinkus (Level 5) ~ 9/23/2012 1:05 PM
Tim, I googled it and found it on horrornewsnetwork.com, the cover has your name on it! Scott, Westland, Smith. It'll be cool to see it in the shops, you can point at it and tell people you made that :-) The cover art looks good, haven't seen inside pages.
Will IDW also publish on Comixology? My preferred place to buy comics at the moment.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 9/23/2012 1:51 PM
I've been Googled!!! And it didn't feel cheap or tawdry at all :-)
To answer your question: I have no idea. I'll try to find out.
KP Mackie (Level 5) ~ 9/23/2012 5:02 PM
Holy cow, your name is everywhere on Google. Pretty cool...
Is there one site that's best (for you and MS) to order?
I seem to remember from Sally's announcement about one of her movies that buying from one site may be better for numbers than another.
(Probably should put this comment on "Shameless Plugs" thread. Never been crazy about that thread title. Would prefer something more complimentary to the MP talent.)
Your site is really good.
Tried to figure out how to animate using a software program; I have absolutely no drawing talent in my gene pool. :(
Back on topic -- Ditto CC!
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 12/27/2012 9:29 PM
And so it is...
Are you all recovering from Christmas?
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 12/27/2012 9:29 PM
Sussing out your loglines?
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 12/27/2012 9:33 PM
I've been laying pretty low of late, and now I see that everyone else is as well...
Happy holidays, everyone.
The Mayan calendar ended and we're all (I assume) still here. Dang if that doesn't happen at least once every ten or twenty years.
BTW - Has ANYONE heard from Brian Howell this last year? I'm more than a little worried...
Reginald McGhee (Level 0) ~ 12/27/2012 9:41 PM
I've have a logline in mine. Brian Wind should be coming along too... I hope.
Reginald McGhee (Level 0) ~ 12/27/2012 9:42 PM
But I haven't heard from Howell, but I heard from Wind.
Sally Meyer (Moderator) ~ 12/27/2012 9:48 PM
Busy with family this Christmas. But I'll be back in full swing in the new year!!
Rich Keel (Level 4) ~ 12/28/2012 7:25 AM
I picture everyone is whispering in this thread...is that weird? I'm just waiting the results of the short film contest. Hoping if I do not visit to frequently time will go quicker.
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 12/30/2012 12:33 AM
I feel like I'm finally winning at Monopoly.
Austin Bennett (Level 4) ~ 12/30/2012 4:15 AM
I want to review all the movies, but I'm getting over this last semester.
Two A-s, by the way. :D
Rich Keel (Level 4) ~ 12/31/2012 10:50 AM
last day, Austin
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/9/2013 2:08 PM
Surely someone has something to say today? Are you writing? Have you seen a movie?
Bill Sarre (Level 5) ~ 6/9/2013 2:18 PM
well since you asked....
I am half way through a new feature and enjoying the challenge of the longer script. i've taken a break of 18 months from the last one. In that time i have just focused on shorts. It's been fun but time to be a big boy.
On one hand i know it's a vomit draft and needs a lot of work on the other i do like to go back and trim etc
I just need to keep momentum and accept flaws that i will deal with later.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/9/2013 2:30 PM
Right on, Bill!
All newbie writers take note of what Bill said above. A really good lesson to be had.
Thanks for sharing, Bill.
JeanPierre Chapoteau (Moderator) ~ 6/10/2013 12:17 PM
I do the same, Bill. I change my characters motives and personalities all throughout my first draft. I just write little notes in the middle of my scenes to remind myself where I plan on going with the change , and hopefully i can bring it all together at the end.
Bill Sarre (Level 5) ~ 6/10/2013 12:33 PM
JP - notes in the middle of the script. I've heard that before but had forgotten. Great idea.
If something doesn't add up due to an earlier difference I do go back and change it at that time so that my thinking is correct, but the temptation is to do more, which I often do, thats why I need to keep it going.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/28/2013 9:22 PM
You People Writing Or Something?
Zach Jansen (Level 4) ~ 6/28/2013 9:39 PM
I'm just spitting on bugs.
Derek Bailey (Level 3) ~ 6/28/2013 10:04 PM
Spitting bugs.... thats it... im off to write. :)
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 8/26/2013 12:01 PM
Just thought I'd say...
Bill Sarre (Level 5) ~ 9/10/2013 3:31 PM
Just realised that I should be thinking about;
Dec - competition, the open challenge - I always find it harder to come up with something without direction so it needs a little more time
January - title and logline - since I was bad first time, and plain awful the second, I'm almost loathe to enter this. But no, I shall not be defeated, again, I hope, really hope, so time to get thinking. With my success maybe I should be planning for 2015 instead. :-(
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 10/20/2013 8:12 PM
Bill Sarre (Level 5) ~ 11/24/2013 9:38 AM
My turn for a bump. And...
I'm STILL thinking about...
1] the open December contest - haven't a clue what to write. Last year i thought i would challenge myself by looking back at previous competitions but it didn't seem to help.
2] feature title and logline - still working on an idea. Despite being one of the worst at MP at this challenge i'll still have a go. Got to get better one day....haven't I?
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 11/24/2013 12:06 PM
Yikes... haven't given the December open contest a thought. Hmmmm... what to write?
As for the logline contest, I have this excellent concept - but this is the one idea I'm not willing to share until I have the script written and registered. Right now I'm 8 pages into the outline.
I'll have to come up with another one.
I hope this proves to be a record turnout year for the logline contest. Those things are hard and we all need to practice them. And when we grade them, I urge everyone to try and provide not just comments/critique... but actual examples of how you would write them.
Dan Delgado (Level 5) ~ 11/24/2013 6:45 PM
"I'm not willing to share until I have the script written and registered."
Nonsense, Tim, you're among friends here. Just whisper the idea to me. Oh and could you speak directly into that lapel pin, please?
"I'll have to come up with another one."
Well, excuuuuuuse me, Mr. my "B" stuff is good enough for MoviePoet!
The abominable arrogance of the "lesser" writers here is absolutely appalling. I'm aghast, agitated, agog and almost apoplectic.
(So what was that idea again, buddy, buddy?)
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 11/24/2013 11:25 PM
Oh man, I know I'm in trouble when someone assaults my artistic abilities with an avalanche of abusive alliteration.
I promise to do my best to bring my "A" game, whatever that is.
I had an idea earlier. I'll see if it goes anywhere as it bounces around inside my noggin over the next few days.
But one thing is certain... I have to enter.
Dan Delgado (Level 5) ~ 11/25/2013 1:37 PM
I wake up each day with a desperate need to "be offended" by something. Some days it's easy, some days I really have to reach. Yesterday was a "far-reaching" day.
You usually do pretty good with your "'A' game, whatever that is".
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 11/25/2013 3:53 PM
@Dan - we'll see this month with INT. CAR. Feeling less than good about my chances.